Comments on: My Au Pair Won’t Get a Flu Shot … and we have an Infant. Now what? http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/ Helping Host Parents and Au Pairs build great relationships. Tue, 22 May 2012 09:09:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: TuTu77 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-20404 TuTu77 Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:33:55 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-20404 I come from a conservative family too. I have never been vaccinated. And until now I do not go for the shots. While I was Au Pair I did not have problem with this issue. The kids were vaccinated but I wonder why they would always get sick after the vaccines. My diet is totally vegan, I mean I eat mostly raw and not frozen or canned food. I avoid using microwave (for my personally). So vitamins always come directly from the fruits and vegetable I eat. Maybe in this case if the Au Pair does not want to get the flu shots then provide her the essential resources that will give to her body the strength to counteract any virus. My former HF always had plenty of fruit throughout the year, and I love it! The difference is bigger when we come from a country where our diet is so different. Personally I have never eaten fast food, my mother taught me since I was child how to cook deliciously. So for me, the optimum option is to have a healthy natural diet. However, I got really sick the second year of my Au Pairing experience, but let's be clear and honest: I was sleeping in the basement converted into a room. There wasn't any options to open the two small windows because there was a greater chance bugs will come in, or a skunk would "aromatize" my room. I did not have clean and pure air flowing through the room. During winter it was cold, but if the heater was higher, upstairs would be too hot. I used plenty of blankets to keep myself warm. My Hfamily provided me eventually a dehumidifier. It helped but I was just glad when my term was over and I could sleep in my room again. I come from a conservative family too. I have never been vaccinated. And until now I do not go for the shots. While I was Au Pair I did not have problem with this issue. The kids were vaccinated but I wonder why they would always get sick after the vaccines. My diet is totally vegan, I mean I eat mostly raw and not frozen or canned food. I avoid using microwave (for my personally). So vitamins always come directly from the fruits and vegetable I eat. Maybe in this case if the Au Pair does not want to get the flu shots then provide her the essential resources that will give to her body the strength to counteract any virus. My former HF always had plenty of fruit throughout the year, and I love it! The difference is bigger when we come from a country where our diet is so different. Personally I have never eaten fast food, my mother taught me since I was child how to cook deliciously. So for me, the optimum option is to have a healthy natural diet. However, I got really sick the second year of my Au Pairing experience, but let’s be clear and honest: I was sleeping in the basement converted into a room. There wasn’t any options to open the two small windows because there was a greater chance bugs will come in, or a skunk would “aromatize” my room. I did not have clean and pure air flowing through the room. During winter it was cold, but if the heater was higher, upstairs would be too hot. I used plenty of blankets to keep myself warm. My Hfamily provided me eventually a dehumidifier. It helped but I was just glad when my term was over and I could sleep in my room again.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: Dorsi http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-14111 Dorsi Sat, 16 Oct 2010 05:47:11 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-14111 I was surprised more crazy anti-vaccine people didn't come out last year when this thread was popular. I respond all to often to trolls (it is a life habit I am trying to break), but I think this a relevant conversation to have. You cannot get the flu from the vaccine or from people who have had the vaccine (live or killed virus). I know more about this than most people. You should trust your doctor on this issue. If you want to do your own research, please do -- please check articles published in peer reviewed journals (most of which are available on Medline, at least the abstracts). It is far less accessible than google, but far more reliable. Any crazy (myself and the above poster, for example) can say anything on the internet. Autismomma probably has never seen a kid, pregnant woman or beloved grandmother die of flu. Each of those is terrible in a unique way. But, I have to thank her -- I am getting ready to interview new AP candidates and I forgot that this is going to be an important issue in the next round. So, thanks for the heads-up and I will be sure to get my child and AP vaccinated! I was surprised more crazy anti-vaccine people didn’t come out last year when this thread was popular. I respond all to often to trolls (it is a life habit I am trying to break), but I think this a relevant conversation to have. You cannot get the flu from the vaccine or from people who have had the vaccine (live or killed virus).

I know more about this than most people. You should trust your doctor on this issue. If you want to do your own research, please do — please check articles published in peer reviewed journals (most of which are available on Medline, at least the abstracts). It is far less accessible than google, but far more reliable. Any crazy (myself and the above poster, for example) can say anything on the internet. Autismomma probably has never seen a kid, pregnant woman or beloved grandmother die of flu. Each of those is terrible in a unique way.

But, I have to thank her — I am getting ready to interview new AP candidates and I forgot that this is going to be an important issue in the next round. So, thanks for the heads-up and I will be sure to get my child and AP vaccinated!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: Autismomma http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-14109 Autismomma Sat, 16 Oct 2010 04:30:04 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-14109 As someone whose children were injured by vaccines, I have done a lot of research into vaccines and their ingredients, so it never ceases to amaze me how little the general public knows about vaccines. It really shouldn't surprise me though, as I used to be just like most people and blindly trusted the information my doctor gave me regarding vaccines. I do not try to sway parents one way or another to vaccinate or not vaccinate, but I do ask that they EDUCATE themselves - something that you have clearly not done. Please don't take this as offensive - I didn't educate myself before vaccinating my children either. Many of us don't because we are led to believe our doctors always know what is best. However, if you ask many doctors what is in particular vaccines, the majority will not be able to answer correctly, if at all. I know this to be true from my own experiences and those of several of my friends. My point here though, is that if you were educated about vaccines, you would know that the flu mist contains a live flu virus and is therefore, a bigger risk for the au pair to be in the presence of the infant if that is the form of flu vaccine she chose to go with if she did ultimately decide to get it. Her body would then contain a live form of the flu virus, which can then be passed on to the baby. A better choice for flu prevention is frequent handwashing, limited or no use of hand sanitizers (as these promote mutation in viruses and other harmful organisms), and taking vitamins B, C, D, and zinc. Obviously, you don't know me at all so if you don't believe what I am telling you, I totally understand. If that's the case, simply type "flu mist live virus" into your search engine and you will find what I am telling you is correct. As someone whose children were injured by vaccines, I have done a lot of research into vaccines and their ingredients, so it never ceases to amaze me how little the general public knows about vaccines. It really shouldn’t surprise me though, as I used to be just like most people and blindly trusted the information my doctor gave me regarding vaccines.

I do not try to sway parents one way or another to vaccinate or not vaccinate, but I do ask that they EDUCATE themselves – something that you have clearly not done. Please don’t take this as offensive – I didn’t educate myself before vaccinating my children either. Many of us don’t because we are led to believe our doctors always know what is best. However, if you ask many doctors what is in particular vaccines, the majority will not be able to answer correctly, if at all. I know this to be true from my own experiences and those of several of my friends.

My point here though, is that if you were educated about vaccines, you would know that the flu mist contains a live flu virus and is therefore, a bigger risk for the au pair to be in the presence of the infant if that is the form of flu vaccine she chose to go with if she did ultimately decide to get it. Her body would then contain a live form of the flu virus, which can then be passed on to the baby.

A better choice for flu prevention is frequent handwashing, limited or no use of hand sanitizers (as these promote mutation in viruses and other harmful organisms), and taking vitamins B, C, D, and zinc.

Obviously, you don’t know me at all so if you don’t believe what I am telling you, I totally understand. If that’s the case, simply type “flu mist live virus” into your search engine and you will find what I am telling you is correct.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: PA au pair mom http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4093 PA au pair mom Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:00:51 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4093 I don't want to get the H1N1 vaccination because I've already had the virus, but my employer is requiring it (I'm a nurse practitioner). Several people in my office and thinking of quitting if they are forced to get it. Healthcare is a "personal" issue for a lot of people and informed consumers should have the right to make choices, in my opinion. That being said, if the OP thinks it's a deal breaker, then it will turn into a much more serious situation. I don’t want to get the H1N1 vaccination because I’ve already had the virus, but my employer is requiring it (I’m a nurse practitioner). Several people in my office and thinking of quitting if they are forced to get it.

Healthcare is a “personal” issue for a lot of people and informed consumers should have the right to make choices, in my opinion.

That being said, if the OP thinks it’s a deal breaker, then it will turn into a much more serious situation.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: NewAPMom http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4091 NewAPMom Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:00:29 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4091 Mag, I strongly disagree. The decision about whether or not to get a vaccination is absolutely a personal right. That decisions may however have consequences, one of which could be her loss of employment. But it is hers to make, nonetheless. Mag, I strongly disagree. The decision about whether or not to get a vaccination is absolutely a personal right. That decisions may however have consequences, one of which could be her loss of employment. But it is hers to make, nonetheless.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: Mag http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4090 Mag Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:58:32 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4090 HMK - stop your handwringing over your au pair's "right" to refuse to take BOTH flu shots -- seasonal and H1N1. She doesn't have the right to endanger your children by refusing to be vaccinated against a communicable disease that experts far more intelligent and well educated than she (or her parents) have determined can be lethal, and it doesn't sound like she has a reasonable excuse for not complying, other than ignorant superstition. This is a public safety issue, not an individual rights issue. What if she claimed that she had the "right" to smoke in the presence of your child, refuse to use seat belts or obey speed limits -- would you hesitate to take action to protect your child for fear of violating her "rights?" There is no such thing as an unlimited personal right, especially when public safety is involved. You don't have to justify your decision by flooding her with more CDC information. Tell her that a condition of further employment with you is to get the shots by a date certain because failing to do so will unreasonably endanger your children, and don't debate the issue with her. You should pay for the shots because you are requiring them for employment. If she still refuses, ask for a rematch as soon as possible and get her out of the house. There will be an entire pool of great au pairs already in the country who are looking for new families and who are probably very willing, and even grateful, to take flu shots. Go with your mothering instincts, stand your ground on this, and don't feel guilty. HMK – stop your handwringing over your au pair’s “right” to refuse to take BOTH flu shots — seasonal and H1N1. She doesn’t have the right to endanger your children by refusing to be vaccinated against a communicable disease that experts far more intelligent and well educated than she (or her parents) have determined can be lethal, and it doesn’t sound like she has a reasonable excuse for not complying, other than ignorant superstition. This is a public safety issue, not an individual rights issue. What if she claimed that she had the “right” to smoke in the presence of your child, refuse to use seat belts or obey speed limits — would you hesitate to take action to protect your child for fear of violating her “rights?” There is no such thing as an unlimited personal right, especially when public safety is involved. You don’t have to justify your decision by flooding her with more CDC information. Tell her that a condition of further employment with you is to get the shots by a date certain because failing to do so will unreasonably endanger your children, and don’t debate the issue with her. You should pay for the shots because you are requiring them for employment. If she still refuses, ask for a rematch as soon as possible and get her out of the house. There will be an entire pool of great au pairs already in the country who are looking for new families and who are probably very willing, and even grateful, to take flu shots. Go with your mothering instincts, stand your ground on this, and don’t feel guilty.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: NoVA Host Mom http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4057 NoVA Host Mom Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:50:13 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4057 au pair - they might not have taken you for the very reason that this post exists to begin with: they may have thought it was not appropriate to ask or tell you that you need to have any flu vaccination. They are the parents and can choose to vaccinate their own children. You are an adult and can decide for herself if she chooses to have one or not. As you notice, not all HFs require their AP to have one. Your HF seems to not think it is necessary to require or even strongly recommend. It has little to do with whether or not they "care" so much as they might just be trying to respect you as an adult to make your own call on a vaccine. Try looking at it from another perspective. And when I am sick, no one buys me medicine. I get it myself. You are an adult and they are not responsible for your health care. If you need medicine for symptom relief, it is your responsibility to get it (or even ask for recommendations for things they use, like NyQuil or Sudafed, etc). For the OP, if your AP is attending classes now, I would definately be concerned. There is a great deal of public interaction that way. It is not as though just restricting play dates and friends coming over will do it. Regardless of the type of flu being discussed, we have not yet hit the peak. You and your husband need to decide between yourselves where you draw the line. Are you able to come up with preventative measures that she will follow and you both feel comfortable? If so, then there is the solution. If not or if she is not following the agreed-to guidelines/rules, then maybe you need to consider a rematch (which we did in just 2 weeks, start to finish, so your LCC might be looking for an easy way to defer the issue). While you cannot force your AP to have a vaccine, you can choose to not employ someone who is not vaccinated. FWIW, we have a 13 mo and I am due in early March as well. Our AP will be getting the flu shots (seasonal and H1N1) and we will be paying for them (H1N1 is free in our area). We will also be suggesting the pneumonia shot (good for nearly a lifetime anyway), but not mandating that. For next year/next AP, we will be mandating it. My husband and I are both in professions where we are around a lot of icky things. While we might have been vaccinated, nothing says we cannot bring it to an unvaccinated person and they get sick from it. That does not do any of us any good, at least in our situation. With such a young baby for you, I would definately err on the side of caution. au pair – they might not have taken you for the very reason that this post exists to begin with: they may have thought it was not appropriate to ask or tell you that you need to have any flu vaccination. They are the parents and can choose to vaccinate their own children. You are an adult and can decide for herself if she chooses to have one or not. As you notice, not all HFs require their AP to have one. Your HF seems to not think it is necessary to require or even strongly recommend. It has little to do with whether or not they “care” so much as they might just be trying to respect you as an adult to make your own call on a vaccine. Try looking at it from another perspective. And when I am sick, no one buys me medicine. I get it myself. You are an adult and they are not responsible for your health care. If you need medicine for symptom relief, it is your responsibility to get it (or even ask for recommendations for things they use, like NyQuil or Sudafed, etc).

For the OP, if your AP is attending classes now, I would definately be concerned. There is a great deal of public interaction that way. It is not as though just restricting play dates and friends coming over will do it. Regardless of the type of flu being discussed, we have not yet hit the peak.

You and your husband need to decide between yourselves where you draw the line. Are you able to come up with preventative measures that she will follow and you both feel comfortable? If so, then there is the solution. If not or if she is not following the agreed-to guidelines/rules, then maybe you need to consider a rematch (which we did in just 2 weeks, start to finish, so your LCC might be looking for an easy way to defer the issue). While you cannot force your AP to have a vaccine, you can choose to not employ someone who is not vaccinated.

FWIW, we have a 13 mo and I am due in early March as well. Our AP will be getting the flu shots (seasonal and H1N1) and we will be paying for them (H1N1 is free in our area). We will also be suggesting the pneumonia shot (good for nearly a lifetime anyway), but not mandating that. For next year/next AP, we will be mandating it. My husband and I are both in professions where we are around a lot of icky things. While we might have been vaccinated, nothing says we cannot bring it to an unvaccinated person and they get sick from it. That does not do any of us any good, at least in our situation. With such a young baby for you, I would definately err on the side of caution.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: Calif Mom http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4039 Calif Mom Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:48:56 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4039 My 2 Cents -- what that means is that the seasonal flu strains aren't being seen here yet, but H1N1 is. So your docs make sense, and even if it sounds vague, it really isn't. CDC is doing sampling of people with what they call influenza-like-illness at different cities around the country. So while not each patient is going to be tested, CDC is "doing testing" -- they're just doing a representative sample. And that testing is usually done through Emergency Rooms, not your regular doctors offices. My 2 Cents — what that means is that the seasonal flu strains aren’t being seen here yet, but H1N1 is. So your docs make sense, and even if it sounds vague, it really isn’t.

CDC is doing sampling of people with what they call influenza-like-illness at different cities around the country. So while not each patient is going to be tested, CDC is “doing testing” — they’re just doing a representative sample. And that testing is usually done through Emergency Rooms, not your regular doctors offices.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: My 2 cents http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4037 My 2 cents Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:35:52 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4037 To OP: You need to decide whether her getting the shots is a dealbreaker for you and your family. It's hard, really hard, but in the end no one can make that decision for you. If you do decide it's a dealbreaker, consider telling your AP that's where you are coming down and see if she will change her mind. Arguments about whether others should be forced or pressured in to what you want, I've got to think your AP would appreciate at least having the chance to reconsider her being fired over that choice. I would ! Incidentally, my own kids have the flu right now. The doctors aren't certain but they think it's H1N1 "based on the time of year," whatever that means. We have high temperatures and that's it (no stomach flu -- thank you!). To OP: You need to decide whether her getting the shots is a dealbreaker for you and your family. It’s hard, really hard, but in the end no one can make that decision for you. If you do decide it’s a dealbreaker, consider telling your AP that’s where you are coming down and see if she will change her mind. Arguments about whether others should be forced or pressured in to what you want, I’ve got to think your AP would appreciate at least having the chance to reconsider her being fired over that choice. I would !

Incidentally, my own kids have the flu right now. The doctors aren’t certain but they think it’s H1N1 “based on the time of year,” whatever that means. We have high temperatures and that’s it (no stomach flu — thank you!).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]> By: Christine Connally http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/comment-page-1/#comment-4036 Christine Connally Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:20:19 +0000 http://AuPairMom.com/my-au-pair-wont-get-a-flu-shot-and-we-have-an-infant-now-what/2009/10/15/celiaharquail/#comment-4036 I can see the issue from both sides. One thing to consider about the FluMist is that is a live virus as opposed to killed virus in the shot. So, the live virus can stay in your system for up to 3 weeks after receiving the FluMist. It is not very likely to be spread to healthy adults from those who have received the FluMist, but the most vulnerable (people with compromised immune systems and young children) can contract it that way. A Denver hospital has opted to wait for the injections because of concerns over health care workers spreading the virus once they have received the FluMist. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21212055/detail.html I can see the issue from both sides. One thing to consider about the FluMist is that is a live virus as opposed to killed virus in the shot. So, the live virus can stay in your system for up to 3 weeks after receiving the FluMist. It is not very likely to be spread to healthy adults from those who have received the FluMist, but the most vulnerable (people with compromised immune systems and young children) can contract it that way.

A Denver hospital has opted to wait for the injections because of concerns over health care workers spreading the virus once they have received the FluMist. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21212055/detail.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0

]]>